LA CROSSE, Wis. − It started at Best Buy.

A store employee asked the couple what sort of videos they wanted to shoot. Joe Gow and Carmen Wilson demurred, not wanting to share their secret plans with a stranger.

"Sports?" the employee asked.

Sure, the couple said.

"Well, then you'll need a tripod!" the worker offered.

Nearly a decade later, the secret is out.

Gow, the University of Wisconsin-La Crosse chancellor since 2007, and his wife, Wilson, have created sex videos, sometimes with adult film stars, and posted them on pornography websites. They have also self-published two books about their experiences, using pseudonyms.

"With any controversy, there's that big flashpoint and we're right in that right now," Gow said. "There's no doubt about it. It's been extraordinary since Wednesday night, just wow."

Wednesday night was last month, when the UW Board of Regents fired Gow, 63, as chancellor for his "abhorrent" and "reckless" behavior, and for subjecting his university to "significant reputational harm." He returned to a faculty job but was put on leave while his tenure status is reviewed. Wilson, 56, was also removed from her unpaid position as associate to the chancellor.

Gow was eager to defend himself, making a First Amendment argument that the termination infringes on his free speech rights.

While the couple view their videos as sex positive, critics of the wider porn industry point to research finding it encourages violence, exploits minors and objectifies women.

"Good judgment requires that there are and must be limits on what is said or done by the individuals entrusted to lead our universities," UW System President Jay Rothman said. "We expect our chancellors, as the leaders of these great institutions, to be role models for our students, staff, and faculty as well for the communities we are privileged to serve."

As for free speech, Rothman called Gow's argument "ridiculous."

In a three-hour interview with the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel, part of the USA TODAY Network, shortly after their firings, Gow and Wilson talked about fallout and their unorthodox lives. Wilson offered the Journal Sentinel a sample of her vegan sausage. Artwork by former students hung on the walls at their home on the edge of town. From a midcentury modern couch, they shared their story without hesitation, taking a brief break for a CNN interview.

The couple were clearly in love and proud of how he'd led UW-La Crosse. Gow said the La Crosse Tribune scrapped its story naming him "Person of the Year," which he said he could understand. What he couldn't grasp was the UW System letter saying he could only be on campus if escorted by the police chief.

"It feels mean-spirited," Gow said. "That's how it feels. And I don't understand why it is that way. It doesn't have to be."

Wilson, who has also worked in academia, was stunned the board didn't discuss his hobby with him before firing him. Gow would have considered quietly putting all the videos behind a paywall, she said.

"There was no negotiation like that in this case," she said.

'There's always going to be people who don't like what you do'

Gow was not a guy with any real plan in early adulthood. A stint at New York University was a pretext to play music with his band in the early 1980s. Gow transferred to Pennsylvania State University, returning to the state where he grew up. As a journalism major, he joined the student newspaper where he didn’t shy away from tough topics.

One time, Gow said, he took on a Republican state lawmaker's anti-abortion views. Another time, he wrote about one of the paper's major advertisers. His editor refused to run the column, so Gow said he quit the paper. He joined a new band that needed a singer.

Gow said he learned something from his band days: While most of the crowd was dancing and smiling, there always seemed to be one or two people in the back of the bar, arms crossed and unhappy.

"I figured out you can't focus on that person," he said. "There is always going to be people who don't like what you do. Focus on the bigger group of people who are enjoying what you're doing."

Searching for a chancellor at an academic conference

Wilson was chair of the UW-La Crosse chancellor search committee when she first met Gow in 2006.

She had been sent to a higher education conference at Edgewood College in Madison to scope out potential candidates. Gow and other college president-hopefuls were there to learn about the demands of the job.

Gow sat in the row ahead of Wilson's. She noticed the slightly frayed suit jacket of the man in front of her.

"Now that person is down to earth," she thought. He'd be perfect to lead UW-La Crosse.

Their time at the university overlapped for five years. Wilson shifted from teaching psychology to taking on more administrative roles, including as Gow's chief of staff for a while.

They said it was a strictly professional relationship. He was married at the time. So was she.

Wilson left in 2011 to lead UW-Rock County. The position put her on the rotation for UW Board of Regents meetings, which Gow also attended.

They were both divorced when he asked her out in 2013. They bonded over being vegans, especially at a time when it was less mainstream.

Gow sees parallels between their diet and interest in porn.

"Ultimately, I wish people would just keep an open mind," he said. "I think it's the same way with sexuality, that some people, just, it's not their thing. So OK, but the rest of us, let us have the freedom that we deserve."

A wild and foggy day in San Francisco

They eloped in 2014, in an iconic fashion. The bride stood at one end of San Francisco's Golden Gate Bridge; the groom stood on the other end, 1.7 miles away.

Clad in running shorts, tennis shoes and T-shirts and trailed by photographers, they ran to the middle and got married. Cars whizzed past. Crowds cheered. The out-of-breath photographers clicked, clicked, clicked.

"We’ve seen a lot of affectionate couples but I think based on a kisses-per-hour ratio, Joe and Carmen take top honors," the photographers wrote on their wedding website in a recap of the ceremony. "Their day was intimate, simple, and completely personal."

The photos made a 2015 Buzzfeed list of "32 Incredibly Beautiful Elopements You Have To See," which Gow and Wilson didn't realize until some students pointed it out.

The couple joked it was their 15 seconds of fame.

An unconventional, celebrated university leader for 16 years

"Unconventional" defined how Gow led UW-La Crosse for 16 years, 10 months and 27 days. Every commencement, he quite literally threw out the script.

"I just get up and talk," he said. "I don’t know of a lot of people that do it that way, but that just feels right to me."

He wore sneakers on move-in day to help haul boxes into dorm rooms. He channeled his rock 'n' roll days at campus concerts.

When finances were tight, Gow cut the university spokesperson position. He didn't see the need for anyone to speak on his behalf.

"It was really fun to do it in a way that felt true to who I am," Gow said of his chancellorship.

Gow left UW-La Crosse among the best financially positioned across the UW System. Enrollment held steady, which is rare for a regional campus when so many others struggle to fill seats. Gow said the university was the only one within the UW System to avoid furloughs and layoffs when COVID-19 hit. Now, as other UW schools grapple with multimillion dollar deficits, UW-La Crosse stands out for its balanced budget.

Despite the successes, Gow said he often felt like an outsider. Within the UW System, he described a philosophical shift over the past decade toward standardizing and controlling campuses, which he found stifling.

"My feeling has been, let's try to be as honest as we can and open — It's a university," he said. "And then I was viewed as this, you know, kind of like, 'what's he doing?'"

Inviting adult film actress Nina Hartley to speak on campus in 2018 led to a swift reprimand for "exercising poor judgment." Previously, he and Wilson had filmed a sex video with Hartley.

Still, Gow has no regrets about the invitation, nor does he think the controversial episode caused the campus harm.

"I think that college students want to be somewhere where they have the freedom to explore all kinds of ideas," he said. "Frankly, these websites that we’re on, (students) are on there, too. Shouldn't we be talking about that?"

From Best Buy to sex conferences, a secret kept for years

No one — colleagues, friends, even family members — knew about their private lifestyle before Dec. 27, Gow and Wilson said.

When guests asked what the "SHC" stood for on a sign hanging in their home or on their wedding day T-shirts, they said it was an acronym for "Super Happy Couple." But it was actually a nod to the "Sexy Happy Couple" and "Sexy Healthy Couple" monikers used in their videos.

Gow and Wilson had both found their previous marriages unfulfilling. When they started dating, they wanted to explore their sexuality more.

It started with the video camera from Best Buy. Then they learned about professional production companies while attending Exxxotica, an annual sex conference in Chicago.

Gow and Wilson found one with "high-quality" and "classy" videos, and the company's owner directed their first shoot, Wilson said, because he was "fascinated" by two amateurs taking an interest in the industry. The couple said it is highly regulated, and they were required to get tested for sexually transmitted diseases.

Wilson was encouraged by commenters who called the videos refreshing for showing an older couple passionate and in love.

Some have speculated the couple is making money off their work. Gow said it's just the opposite, estimating they have spent at least $80,000 on production and travel costs over the years. They have few paid subscribers, and the money made from advertising revenue on the free porn websites is "miniscule, like 69 cents per 1,000 views," Wilson said.

Book sales net $1.80 each, Gow said, not enough to even break even on their Amazon advertising costs. Any revenue went into Wilson's bank account, not his.

The purpose wasn't profit, he said. The videos were for their own private collection.

"It's kind of like a painter doing a painting in their basement as opposed to somebody that's trying to sell,” Gow said.

What's next for Joe Gow and Carmen Wilson?

Using pen names, Gow and Wilson published two books about their experiences — “Monogamy with Benefits: How Porn Enriches Our Relationship" in 2015 and "Married with Benefits: Our Real-life Adult Industry Adventures" in 2018. Until recently, the author photo on Amazon was just an "SHC" logo, not a picture of them.

Over the fall, the couple grew more comfortable making their hobby more public. They knew in time it would all come out, and they were OK with it. But the speed with which it happened suprised them.

"I think we were just naive," Wilson said. "We didn’t think it would go this viral. ... Part of that would be grounded in the fact that nothing ever took off in the past. You know, the books didn't take off dramatically. The paid-for stuff didn't take off. So we just figured, well, you know, you go on to Pornhub, I mean, there's gazillions of videos. So it's like, it's a needle in a haystack."

Gow said he met with two UW System officials about the videos a week before his termination but hadn't expected the board to fire him without discussing it.

Rothman, the UW System president, said at the time that as a limited appointee Gow is "not entitled to any specific process" and "it is time for us to turn the page."

But Gow wants to keep talking about it, whether that be in a UW-La Crosse classroom or a different campus. The review of his status as a tenured communications professor potentially jeopardizes his plans to teach where he is now.

Wilson has left academia. She's interested in launching a vegan cooking show and publishing a vegan cookbook.

Together, Gow and Wilson have written about 80% of their third book. They're still deciding whether they will publish this one under their real names.

They're also still working on the ending.

Contact Kelly Meyerhofer at [email protected]. Follow her on Twitter at @KellyMeyerhofer.